I was following the updates on twitter. The only argument the solicitor general had that court should not decide, legislature should decide. One sentence I remember is farmer from south and businessman from north..... .
Honestly, Gay marriage recognition is really big thing, though it does not make sense now, but it heps the society to normalize gay relations. As long as we have a conservative right wing in govt, dont even imagine Legislative will act on it. Infact I believe SC has no role in this ruling. Though Gay marriages were legalized in US by Judiciary. And Brazil by Legislation. In India, Govt does not like Judiciary to have such powers, in short, I believe Sc will transfer issue back to legislative matter, and since we dont have considerable numbers(population/vote heads) we ll be conveniently get ignored deliberately. Eventually ending up in THIS "o called "progressive society where lives do not matter !". Congratulations Straight Retardos, you have won yet again.
@abbasulli I literally giggled reading your comment. That's absolutely correct that we've a government which is right wing but they did say in the Honourable Supreme Court of India that they do not prefer Gay Marriages. Did Congress government say so? I desire to ask everyone that this is a topic that relates to LGBTQ+ community. Please don't make it political.
@buster19, I think you are making it political by comparing it with congress. He is just said government. And govt has recently said that this LGBTQ is urban class culture.
@Jaytop: Thank you for reading my comment with right intention. I exactly meant what you understood. Govts in general take majoritarian stand, they usually have no balls to stand up against minority rights, end of the day govt should be run by a political party which inturn needs vote heads.
@MisterBuster: You want a political statement - here u go, Congress, would do anything to appease west, and NDA will do anything to appease Sangh and chai walas..! Happy? When it comes to such sensitive issues, dont just make random presumptions. Ohmojo is such a beautiful platform, we can so anonymously, run a fight for a cause. Dont dilute it.
And sorry to rest who got offended. Just get used ! This is no easy topic.
@abb lgbt community is minority but not so small if we assume 10% popularion of gays then it comes to 14 crore which is a huge vote bank even bigger then entire muslims of india. So if any political party wants vites then they have to resolve our issues.
@abbasulli, I agree with you. The center will always cater to majoritarian ideas of morality and marriage; the legislature giving a nod is not going to happen.
I remember being on a discussion panel when the 2018 Navtej verdict came out, and one of the guests had said that judicial activism will not work everytime, even if it does it can only go so far as giving a verdict and "directing" the government. Raise your concerns in the state assembly, the parliament, try to have an influence among the peoples representatives. The way forward should be to have more queer voices in the legislature, more representation from the community, or atleast people who will raise questions on our behalf, regardless of what party they belong to.
The NALSA verdict (where the transpersons were declared third gender) provided a lot of "progressive" directions to the central and state governments, but most of them were not implemented, just because the governments, regardless of their politics do not care enough for us, and we do not have enough people representing our concerns.
It would be ideal to have the legislature bring in reforms, provide us rights, rather than the court having to step in; but that is not going to happen at this point.
Even if Supreme Court will legalise gay marriage do u all think that all gays will come out of closet and tell their family that they are gay and they will marry a guy...I dont think it will make hardly any difference. Gay *** was legalised by the court way back on August 2017, how many guys came out in their family. Though I m in favour of gay marriage but still our society is not ready for this. Lets see how the ruling goes and how the people react to this.
The term gay includes bisexuals too. Most of them wont like to marry a man. For gays who are at one end of the spectrum and have zero interest in women, the judgement will matter. It is our life and we should take charge of it. I am 55 and I had told my parents long back that I wont be marrying (a girl). I didnt tell them about my sexuality as wasnt sure they would understand and didnt want to give them more trouble during their old age. I am out to few of my relatives, friends and colleagues. As a matter of fact many gays had come out after the Delhi high court judgement. As I had written earlier, the judgement will again start a discussion in the society and we get a chance to explain things to the people who matter to us.
@rishi: This issue shall be seen from anthropological point of view and with far sightedness, ofcourse, August 2017's judgement dint make all gays to come out, but it sure made gays feel they are worth of life. And overall acceptance of society has increased by atleast 1% ! Over a period of time, acceptance will grow multifold, that is exactly what we shall aim from.
Eventually, in 10 years, when the next generation of people take charge of societies normality, they will accept it and normalize !!
And yes, being on left end of gay spectrum, with absolute zero interest in women, i still dont want to get married to men ! It really doesnt mean anything to me to get married in this society !! May be the third generation from now would want to get gay married. For that generation it shoudlnt be the same pain/ circumstances we are going through.
And as am telling you, I dont think it should be a matter of SC to identify the legality of marriage, it is rather legislative which should but as i said in my earlier point, its all about the majoritarian view that prevails or the popularity voice that matters.
I really hope, Hrithik roshan comes out as Gay !! and the whole world will have a different perspective !! :)
If there is one person, who we all need to thank/ be grateful is to Ellen Degneres .. who has had guts to come out and bring change in society in a date when even thinking of being gay brings chills !! She did not just normalize it in America but the whole world.
Italy has been of the last conservative countries were so called āmarriages between same *** personsā were legalised. We are not really talking about official wedding. They are called ācivil unionsā. Not only gay/lesbian couples can do it, but also, I. E. 2 elderly friends, alone, with no family left. Civil union means that the couple is officially recognised in front of law, allowing the surviving spouse to inherit, assist in hospital, take decisions in case of emergency. Of course, the Catholic Church doesnāt recognise these unions, but there are more open minded priests who even celebrated or celebrate unions. India, if you reach this objective, you will be automatically ahead of many countries!
The final arguments have been made and we can expect the final judgement of the Supreme Court soon, within a month maybe.
Here's a brief of what has happened in the supreme court till now:
The way the government has been so against it has been very disappointing and this makes me feel that we may end up with the petitions getting rejected by the judges who might be more inclined to toe the current government's stance. They may also go this way because this ruling is definitely going to affect a lot of other laws and will definitely complicate a lot of matters. I just hope the judges decide that resolving those complications in law should be the route to take instead of sweeping the matter under the carpet! This video goes into some of the arguments that the government has made:
However, some of the responses from the bench makes it feel like they may decide to be more cautious because of these complications. This article gives a good idea about the thoughts of the bench.
Earlier I was cautiously optimistic but all the above makes me feel that any optimism might be premature. I hope I'm wrong. Keeping my fingers crossed.....
I was reading news and articles it seems like they are saying it cannot be all or none approach. I am guessing some limited privileges may come most likely but I wish more positive things happen towards now leading to legalization of marriage atleast in future.
Even if the SC gives verdict, there will be no divorce no talak for same *** marriage. Once you choose ur partner it will be life time. Please think 100000 times before you go ahead for gay marriage.
@daddy i agree with u as i feel in gay life we have multiple partners and nothing life life time.so we have to be careful as it is very complex issue even in other countries gay marriages are open marriages where *** outsite marriage permitted.
The gay marriage if it becomes legal, is likely to become so under special marriage act. Special marriage act also provides for divorce. Chapter 6 of the act covers divorce.
I am not totally support for this because natural we are not prepared for these type of relationship. Yes in younger age it is very excited but when we get old we cant drive and justify these relationship. But I strongly support gay lgbt activities are not a shameful act it natural way of fun. I never recognize myself that I am Straight top bottam or whatever but i enjoyed every thing with girls with top with bottam and with shemale it is not any thing odd. There should be a social awareness or this. When I am teenager some people watch me doing activity with my friend. Whole society ashamed me. After that we cant talk for 10 years. Few day ago I was seating with some friends that guy is also there. One of my friends pass coment re tumhara mall bagal baitha h. Mujhe khud ke liye utna bura nhi laga jitna uske liye laga, fir laga kuch aisa karna chahiye ki wo dar khatm ho. Mai sabke samne us ladke ko kiss kiya aur bola karoge wo bola ha, sabke samne maine uske sath kiya aur itna hi bola hilane se acha hai aapas me enjoy kar le jise dikkat ho wo jane. Kafi refreshing laga fir mere do teen dosto ne kiya. Uske bad us ghatna ka jikra tak nhi karta kyunki ab wo chiz normal ho gayi unke liye. Yes we need freedom for our physical mental refreshment.
Hello everyone, i want to marry a men ..not legally, just i want his surname , sindoor nd a tali. Princy here from Bangalore, age 32, well settltby god grace.. here is my story....1 st thing I am very much devotional person nd i belive deeply in that adhiskakti.. 8 years bfr i married i men in temple ,just a tali, sindoor nd surname I got from him, now we are not together now but in god eyes still i am his 1st wife nd i am unable to carry the weight of that surname nd tali, it killing me every second from inside bcoz with lot of dreams nd hopes i steeped in his life but i always got pain in soul, it's my bad luck nd bad past, but now I want a new surname , if any one who is able to give me surname, tali and a chutki sindoor infornt of that god msg me , after marriage I don't stay with that person or I don't want that person to stay with me , if that person never turn back or don't keep any relationship with me then also i am happy but I want to marry a man ,this surname weight nd playing with my life nd feeling i am unable to handle ....if any one take this msg as a joke then can ..i am not in that stage that I give explanation to any one , i am doing that only which I feel right for me ...
Marriage and relationship in gay life is a mirage. Am from chennai TNagar area. I met a guy from triplicane. Through Ohmojo through my previous profile. I guess we both fell foot over heels on the first sight itself. I was sincere and assiduous in building the relationship further. I dono what happened to him initially he was so ensuring about our mutual feelings, but he slowly started avoiding messaging and replying me I understood in the meanwhile while I was leaving no stone unturned to fix it, unfortunately I was transferred to Coimbatore, I info him in advance hoping that he would either come for a send off or at least call or even text me on the day of departure but none happened. It was extremely painful. Weeks passed I was wreathing with pain Semma pain io vera level. But I made it clear to put a full stop and remove the comma. Anyhow I couldnāt forget him and forgive me for loosing my mind upon someone. I hope one day he would text me keeping fingers crossed . I couldnāt think any other guy in his place. Itās like being mad and high together. š šš. So I advice guys to loose anything but not mind and ā¤ļø
Okay so I attended an event in Gurgaon yesterday wherein an informal debate took place on the ongoing Supreme Court case and the participants in this case were the lead lawyers from either side fighting this petition (for/against). Here's the gist, while the lawyer fighting for the petition argued that the case only seeks to provide what is believed to be a fundamental right of choosing one's own partner devoid colour, caste, religion etc must also extend the same right to *** and sexual orientation i.e. equality in a democratic society must be provided to all citizens and not just the heteronormative society we live in. True very true.
But the other side claimed that to change this basic law would also require to change 600 other by laws that are linked to the Marriages Act such as marital ***, adoptions, inheritance etc. His argument was that firstly it is imperative that all of these other laws are able to provide inclusions of the LGBTQ society following which a final change in the Marriages Act may be taken up. Moreover, there are many nuances involved which the court does not have the expertise in and must therefore take into account other opinions of other experts/panels instead of giving an independently thought judgement. Also that the Court does not have the jurisdiction to change societal norms as it does not represent the People, it the Parliament that does.
Here are my thoughts: I agree and if history has proven anything, it is that, societal behaviour may not be under the Court's jurisdiction, but by legally recognising the matter, the Court will allow to bring about that change, even if it takes 10 or 15 years. In a heteronormative society the Marriages Act came first, all the amendments and By Laws that came after happened over the course of decades with changing societies. So why can't the same be done again. Give us the basic freedom first and then make changes as and when the problems arise. By trying to change everything at once we may not be able to get anywhere. Why complicate the matter by creating hypothetical situations that may not even create problems when the time comes. Also there is a general belief that we are fighting this case only for taxes and inheritances and so on. But it is important to understand the social effect of a Right like this. More no. of people will be able to come out of the closet, fear of ostracisation will diminish with time and most importantly the preservation of self dignity on the basis of sexual orientation will be supported by Law.
What was shocking to see was the amount of applause that was generated for the Lawyer speaking against the Case. While both the Lawyers are amazing, the Lawyer against the matter, I felt, was a better public debater. He answered questions in a way that engaged the audience and moreover, successfully diverted from the matter by bringing in other issues; making a simple question of Right to Equality an overtly complicated matter. This the audience, our heteronormative society, gobbled up and showed an agreement that was ominous. Now understand this was a gathering of creme de la creme of Gurgaon society. And what was scary was that they were so easily swayed by the opposing side as if they did not have any opinion of their own. And because they are posh and did not want to look conservative by speaking against the matter were looking for reasons other than Equality that justified the existing rules.
This was just my observation and I could be wrong. But whatever the situation is, didn't seem promising.
@juicychub, these are not the bylaws he is talking of but independent laws on domestic violence, divorce,alimony, custody, dowry etc. Currently these laws are not gender neutral or are not made for egalitarian marriages. For example, the dom violence law does not even consider a female aggressor or a male victim. A marriage as you understand is not the event of wedding itself but what follows after it. There are an entire gamut of laws concerned with marriage from its initiation to an ongoing marriage or even it's breakdown. Hindu marriage act or the special marriage act were codified in the 50s and were as much about divorce as the initiation of marriage itself. Since the current petition is about amending the scope of extending Special Marriage Act to same-*** couples, the entirety of that law will have to be considered- that the petitioners have not paid much attention to or at least one female lawyer were very glib about it being it saying just change the definition and let the rest of the text apply as per the gender of the person undergoing the marriage.In its current shape the SMA has two two schedules of forbidden relationships, one each for each gender. So a man cannot marry his sister, but a sister is not barred under the schedule for women. If the above suggestion by the above lawyer is accepted then two lesbian siblings or two gay siblings can marry. Re This is the argument JSD was making and you have reduced it to a simplistic take on equality.
On DV, I have walked out of a same *** relnship when I discovered that the person has a violent temper.
I wish they legalise gay marriages so girly bottoms like me can marry hairy mature men. I can't wait to crossdress everyday for my husband. I want to feel safe cross-dressing in public and being honest about my love for ***.
